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16" upgrade
10-11-2011, 10:33 AM
Post: #21
Re: 16" upgrade
Anyway back to the rear disc conversion!

The photos Axeman so kindly posted up were of the MK2 prototype adaptor. I decided to "finish the thought" and add a small lug at the bottom, to make use of the 10mm dowel pin and securely locate the whole brake assembly. There was a bit of detail work to eliminate the spot-faces and reduce fillet rads for production purposes but otherwise they were right first time.
Here's the obligatory publicity shot :mrgreen:

[Image: HPIM0505.jpg]


We have about 10 kits in circulation so far, several fitted to daily use working vehicles (like axeman's and mine) and nothing to report other than a handbrake that works all the time with the convenience of a quick brake service. Winter will see if the re-routed handbrake cables had the desired effect of preventing cable freeze...
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10-11-2011, 10:52 PM
Post: #22
Re: 16" upgrade
Oh right..... (must resist the quote button)

jed

CAMPERVANCULTURE.COM
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10-12-2011, 08:25 AM
Post: #23
Re: 16" upgrade
hi jed

Thanks for the info on the ball joint spacers, i was blissfully unaware the they were being copied.

now to ian, thanks for the input that you were unhappy with the quality on my UCA spacers, never heard a word from you about it. the set you got were the same as the ones i made for my own bus, they were the proptype units, we made 3x by hand, no expensive milling cnc machines etc. we tested 2 sets in my syncos and they worked fine. the new ones we now make are also cnc machined like your copies, it has nothing to to with pride in your work, the original ones we made work 100%. they were just the prototype version, yes a little rough, but still did the job.

if i had known you were in the copy business, i would not have supplied them to you and arranged with my sister to take them back to the Uk for you.

what i find strange is the syncro world is so small and then people "steal" from others. yes they are not copy righted or anything but that is not the point.

if you had spend the time doing the development on them, fine, but what you did is let me do the development and the just neaten it up and copy them.

That is not very nice,

stuart

I suppose this is the plus point of forums on the internet, you can find these thing out.

I may be a mechanic, but i can't fix stupid
Bad planning on your part does not make your issue an crisis to me
Bad workmanship by other garages does not entiltle you to better rates at me
Syncro, syncro , syncro and more syncro, this is the syncro way of life
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10-12-2011, 10:09 AM
Post: #24
Re: 16" upgrade
I definately don't won't to get into the middle of this discussion but hasn't this idea been around for a long time? Stuart are you saying that you invented this or were the first person to do this? And for anyone with any kind of engineering inclination it is pretty self evident when you raise the suspension that some kind of spacer is needed on the UCA to maintain the geometry. There are guys all over the world who have made some kind of spacer. I've never seen Stuarts ones but I had some made to my own specifications and instructions when I raised my suspension. The design of the suspension dictates the design of the spacer so there is not much room for creativity. I'm pretty sure they all look pretty much the same. I understand how you feel Stuart but this is the digital age and ideas are freely shared and used. We are all doing this on this forum. There is nothing to stop anyone taking the pics of Ian's brake conversion and using these to help them do the same thing themselves. People own their work but most ideas these days are in the public domain unless they are copyrighted. If someone wants to make money out of a product or idea it has to be a better quality or price than someone else can do it for.

I've attached some pics of the spacers I made. I can't stop anyone using the idea but you may find that it is more economical to buy from someone like Stuart who has them made in bulk.


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.jpg  041.jpg (Size: 205.46 KB / Downloads: 61)
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10-12-2011, 11:05 AM
Post: #25
Re: 16" upgrade
hi ian

I am not saying i invented them, but we did all the research on the set i sold Ian in the UK, he then just copied them, i know gordon had a set on his syncro a long time ago, steel spacers.

The basic point is be upfront and say what your intentions are. then some one has a choice to sell you stuff or not, don't buy stuff that takes time to develop and then just copy it.

it is like a guy using your photos' to make money. not nice.

stuart

BTW your spacers look awesome

I may be a mechanic, but i can't fix stupid
Bad planning on your part does not make your issue an crisis to me
Bad workmanship by other garages does not entiltle you to better rates at me
Syncro, syncro , syncro and more syncro, this is the syncro way of life
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10-12-2011, 12:06 PM
Post: #26
Re: 16" upgrade
After I posted this I thought that there may be other factors of which I was not aware. Obviously I don't know all the details of this specific case so I won't make any further comments on it. Maybe I should say that generally there is a difference between being inspired by something someone else has done or even using their idea, and buying their product with the specific intention of copying it and selling it. But to be fair there are a lot of products on the 4x4 market that are a result of someone buying a product for themselves and then thinking that they could do it better, or cheaper. It's tough making a living working for yourself these days because of this but that's just the way it is. In my field it's probably even more so. If I come up with a novel idea; a way of lighting something, a pose, a location, or a photoshop technique, it's just a matter of time before other people are doing it. In fact most pros don't even bother trying to keep things secret anymore and instead willingly share their ideas. We've just got to be confidant that we can do a better job with the skills we have. In the Syncro market I'm sure there is not a single product that has not been reproduced somewhere. Spare wheel carriers, tanks, bullbars, engine conversions etc. All of us who have done or do conversions have learnt a thing or two from something else we have seen. I've thought of marketing a kit for raising the suspension because I don't know of anyone else who has done it like I have. I've put a lot of homework and money into it but as soon as it's on the market I can't stop people copying it. I can only try and make it better than they can for a realistic price. Again I'm not talking about this specific case but I think we need to be clear on this generally as it is going to come up again and again on a forum like this. Pro's and cons I suppose. We all benefit from sharing ideas here and it can gain you business and it can lose you business.
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10-17-2011, 03:53 PM
Post: #27
Re: 16" upgrade
Hi Guys,
Time to clear the air and clear up the confusion. I didn't buy anything direct from Stuart, I simply had a customer arrive and put a pair of spacers in front of me and ask that I improve on them and maybe run a small batch for the UK as there were none about (as previously stated, no-one was aware of the pending import)
To cut the story short, I reckon that once Stuart's parts landed at the other stockist in the UK, we now have more of these items than can ever be sold, so it's backfired on everyone and we've all ended up with dead stock.
I'm not in the rip-off business, I'd much rather innovate then slavishly copy another's work and I certainly wouldn't claim any credit for original R&D by another person.
On that note, I'll go and get on with my supercharged WBX project instead of continuing to derail this thread...

Ian
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10-17-2011, 04:36 PM
Post: #28
Re: 16" upgrade
Good that's sorted then. Everyone is once again cleared to make their own UCA spacers or buy them from someone else that makes them!

I've got to say that this episode has bothered me a bit as one thing that has set the SA Syncro group apart from other groups and 4x4 forums, is the lack of personal issues. It's always been a lighthearted group of people sharing and helping each other out. If we don't make an effort to maintain that, it will be lost. So to the UK guys, welcome; it's great to have you here. If you have old issues with one another, sort them out or leave them at the door. Same for the locals. Life is too short.
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10-17-2011, 06:40 PM
Post: #29
Re: 16" upgrade
Gets my vote! Wink
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10-17-2011, 08:35 PM
Post: #30
Re: 16" upgrade
And mine !!!!! I'm a UK resident who owns 2 South African buses. I know most of the other UK SA owner's through the UK forums. But THIS forum IS the place for us to ask technical questions about these buses. There seems to be a lot of content on the UK forums that ISN'T about the buses............ I rest my case !!!! Big Grin

Ps. I've just fitted a Porsche caliper and Mercedes front disc combo to the front of my 1994 2.5 Caravelle. If anyone's interested I'll post up some pictures ?
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